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this with president obama who said i can't stand these super pacs but realized you cannot unilaterally disarm if you're in this game, and he would be crushed and rolled over. how do we reconcile that. good people trapped in a bad system. how do we ultimately manifest that. >> well, i think you need someone who breakaway and who will understand, and i believe this to be true, if they say i will not take super pac money that the people who hate the campaign finance system will come to them and say this is a different politician. >> gavin: yeah. >> and that is a tough choice. i appreciate that, but i do believe, in fact that in this day and age where the issue of money and politics is just pervasive and ordinary every day conversation that a candidate could be quite successful in this regard. >> gavin: i mean, what is it about the political parties today and politics today that that doesn't reward good behavior? >> well, i think thanks to modern technology everything now is a realtime, and everything gets amplified pretty quickly. you publish an article get a letter to the editor, then you get a respon
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